[cont] It may be hard to believe, but the truth of the matter is that Joseph Stalin and his backers set both himself AND the Soviet Union up for everything they got from the Germans. I notice that you choose NOT to discuss how the USSR and Nazi Germany came together to split up Poland in 1939. I notice that you choose NOT to discuss how thousands of Polish Army officers were summarily EXECUTED by the NKVD - a secret police just as evil as the Gestapo. That you choose NOT to discuss how the only crime these Polish Officers committed was being on the wrong side of the line when Russia and Germany split up their country - even Germany treated their Polish Army Officers like POWs - The Soviets couldn't even be bothered to sign the Geneva Convention. I suppose that this is too sensitive a topic for someone as knowledgeable of WW 2 history as yourself. You may pull that crap on those less knowledgeable than I, oh great protector of Soviet communism, but think not that you shall pull any wool over my eyes. For one who claims so much knowledge, I make it very easy for you to check the facts behind me - ask for specific proof, and I shall cram it down your throat. Gladly will I do YOUR research for you and send you to the sites to see for yourself. I am not afraid - for truth will always out, and I find yours wanting...

said EStrongblade 4 days ago

@MECTb - you said "The Soviets were no angels but they did not invent the industrial production-style methods of killing fellow human beings." Wrong - the Soviets DID indeed invent the industrialized labor camps - during the Red Star/White Star civil wars of the 1920s and early 30s when they spent nearly a decade wholesale murdering their own people in the MILLIONS. The Gulags were used to literally work people to death - anyone who was caught actively disagreeing with the dictates of those who ran the camps. It is from these camps that Hermann Goering (that's right - Goering) got the idea for the Concentration Camps, and passed said information on to his nazi buddies in Germany. Concentration Camps were modeled after Gulags and run very nearly identically. It was not until 1942 that the Nazis took it a step further and started extermination camps. This all began during the behind-the-scenes deals the Soviets made with Germany during the 1920s and 30s to allow the two nations to participate in mutually beneficial activities - Germany exchanged their expertise and training abilities for the secret bases that only the Soviets were willing to provide - in an area well outside of the prying eyes of the French, U.S.A and the English.

said EStrongblade 4 days ago

communist commisar on the loose....

said maulcoal 10 months 15 days ago

your grandfather liberated those poor souls? color me impressed. was he a member of the 322nd during the battle of moscow and kursk?

said colmoses 2008.02.08 at 11:16:22 PST

My parents and grandparents did not know what nationalism really was. One of the main doctrines in the Soviet Union was a duty of "proletarian internationalism". Open nationalists were frown upon and quite often persecuted. The most poignant (and "anti-nationalistic" ) experience my Granddad had in the midst of the unimaginable brutality of WWII was the liberation of KLAuschwitz. When the lucky survivors of that hell on Earth from all over Europe kissed his hands and thanked him in a dozen of foreign languages. To this day he stresses that those kisses mean to him more than all the medals he got from the fat generals. It was his most humbling and spiritually rewarding experience of his life-time.

said MECTb 2008.02.04 at 05:18:17 PST

or not, what ever.

said colmoses 2008.01.15 at 05:34:48 PST

oh! side note. ironically my favorite war movie is "enemy at the gates" staring jude law. it depicts the sniper battle between vasili zaitsev, the famous russain sniper,(i probably spelled that wrong) and a fictional german major in the crumbling city of stalingrad. watch it and tell me if it is far off the mark of your understanding of the war.

said colmoses 2008.01.15 at 05:34:17 PST

i would hardly say i diminished the soldiers, merely their leader. stalin was a terrible, bloodthirsty, power hungry leader whose actions only grew worse over time with the starvation of his own people. nationalism (is that a better word for it? they're all the same) did exist in the soviet union, do not deny it. with out it it could not have existed for so long (i believe i have all ready touched this subject). also, though i may be westernized and young, you seem to be confusing it with ignorance and you yourself are becoming guilty of the fault your accusing. concept of total war? i've seen the numbers of resources being pooled into the soviet war machine that by the wars end mad the soviet union the most powerful military force in the world, more powerful than all of the allied powers combined. there was a plan proposed to invade russia after the war by england but was wisely turned down do to lack of resources. one more thing, i don't bother myself with those old war movies staring clint eastwood and john wayne, depicting soldiers as dirty, old, ar loving men. the soldiers were in all regards children.

said colmoses 2008.01.15 at 05:30:48 PST

Colmoses, I find your attempt to diminish the sacrifice of our ordinary soldiers in the fight against genocidal/racist Nazi invader highly immoral and quite misleading. You obviously did not read my comments carefully. I made it quite clear: we decent Russians despise Stalin and his clique. He is largely to blame for a flirting with Hitler before the war. He is to blame for decimating Russian officer core. He is to blame for a total disaster of the first months of the war. To mention a few... Our enormous war effort against the Germanic Herrenvolk was not based on communist brainwashing or that cliche of yours "patriotism". IT WAS A STRUGGLE FOR OUR BIOLOGICAL SURVIVAL. Nothing else. Full stop. I was lucky enough to see my relatives coming back from the war. I learned history from THEM. Unlike my German peers I had no problems asking my relatives "Granddad/uncle what did you do during the war ?" Unlike the German "war veterans" my relatives did not have to be boud by a code of silence. I gather you are a Westerner... a typical victim of the "Cold War" education system. I am used and almost immune to people like you... Listen son, you have no concept of a total war in the East. Anyway...it is not your fault. What about you go back to watching "The great escape", "Hogan's Heroes" or "Allo, Allo" ?... Have fun...

said MECTb 2008.01.09 at 17:32:43 PST

MECTb, your blind patriotism is sad to say the least. the germans weren't evil scum of the earth as you parade them. propoganda is a dangerous tool and was used effectively to brainwash, both soviets and germans alike. not every german agreed with the acts of the nazis. also your idea of millions of russains who stood against stalin, many of those who werre sent to gulags for labor reasons; false numbers, poor work out put, etc. if so many of these people rose up like you proclaim i hardly believe that the soviet union would have lasted for the length it did. also, millions of people worship stalin as a god and saw him as a father figure who looked over him when he was just a power hungry sadist, no better than hitler. i do not defend nazis nor communists, in fact i enjoy the rich history of the ussr, not envelope myself in it and let such blind nationalism take control of me.

said colmoses 2008.01.08 at 09:27:27 PST

Alesi 79, You ill-informed pathetic Nazi apologist. My grandfather was sent to Kolyma (Gulags) sentenced by Stalin for spreading so called anti-Soviet propaganda but in 1942 he was one of the first volunteers to join the Soviet Army units desperately recruited from the Gulag inmates. Joining those units they did not care about Stalin. They cared about they homeland and their families which were at the bring of physical and biological annihilation. In 1938 like millions of Russians he stood up to Stalin and was sent to the Gulags. How many Germans stood up to Hitler? 100 ...a thousand ? Strangely enough you seem to forget mentioning that SS Units were in charge of running concentration and death camps. They were well trained killing machines and nothing else. They were first to change into civil clothes after the war was over even on the Western front. Despite Stalinist repressions the Russian people got priorities right. First they got rid of the genocidal Hitler then in 1956 they condemned Stalin and rehabilitated all victims of his excesses. Thank to our victory in 1945 Russia does exist so do the Russian people. We are not perfect but we are proud of our contribution to the world's civilization in science,art,literature,mu sic, sport...which genocidal Nazis tried to deny us in 1941-1945. Russia is not a perfect country but it is the only country we have.

said MECTb 2007.12.30 at 03:31:22 PST

@ MECTb The fighting units had nothing to do with concentration camps. The reason why SS-Soldiers were afraid of beeing captured by the Soviet Army were the great numbers of massacred SS-Soldiers. The soviet propaganda told their soldiers intentionally lies of childkilling SS-Beasts, that's why the soviets treated SS-POWs this way. The most Waffen-SS soldiers just did their duty. Furthermore remember the millions of people who died in Gulags. That's industrial style as well.

said alesi79 2007.12.29 at 03:56:09 PST

In regards to mnpd007 question. All German cemeteries were obliterated by the soviets.

said cment99 2007.12.18 at 17:04:46 PST

SS - the scum of the earth. A piece of pathetic pageantry from a bunch war criminals. In British and American POW camps these "heroes" will be first to change into civilian clothing. They preferred suicidal death rather than being captured alive by The Soviet Army. They knew full well why ... I do not condone mass rapes of German women by the Soviet soldiers but it pales into insignificance compared with the SS treatment of people in Auschwitz, Treblinka, Sobibor... The Soviets were no angels but they did not invent the industrial production-style methods of killing fellow human beings.

said MECTb 2007.10.14 at 00:26:17 PDT

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said jrosevelt 2007.06.20 at 07:34:07 PDT

Similarly Americans have intruded in Korea, Vietnam, Serbia, Iraq and, probably, will intrude in Iran masking the egoistical purposes imaginary necessity of protection of democracy or struggle against terrorism, etc. Look sometimes in a mirror...

said mishkov 2007.03.29 at 01:42:49 PDT

Funny how certain people think the Nazis were evil scum for invading the Soviet Union (no argument here), but convienently forget or ignore that the Soviets also invaded both Poland (in union with Hitler) and sovereign Finland... is not the sauce good for the goose and the gander????

said johncaccamo 2007.03.22 at 08:32:24 PDT

There is a good Russian proverb: to dogs - the dog death!

said d_bor 2007.03.18 at 13:55:12 PDT

The Nazis had nothing to do in Russia and got what they deserved in the end, around Stalingrad there are still fields where bones of the Germans are laying unburied. They were nothing more but a bunch of war criminals.

said flevente100 2007.02.24 at 11:14:15 PST

I've noticed the Germans took very special care of their dead, especially considering they were under the pressure of war. These photos make me wonder what ever happened to the German cemetaries in Russia after the owners were pushed back. I'm fairly certain the Russians didn't take care of them, and may even have looted them by now, especially with the rise in prices of WWII memorabilia.

said mnpd007 2007.02.21 at 18:56:31 PST

great photo

said tbsteph 2007.02.01 at 20:02:40 PST

fabulous piece of history

said jainamax 2006.07.05 at 22:11:41 PDT